SE-R Replacement

Sat Feb 16 14:41:08 CST 2008

Been meaning to respond for a few days, have only had time to read emails.

Integra GS-R is somewhat in the same vein as the B13 SE-R--or maybe even the Type R. The new SE-R, to me, isn't as far off as some people criticize it to be. I think the "point" of the B13 SE-R was an accessible, nimble, spunky, just-right character as-is. Not overdone anywhere, and only brakes being questionable stock. It was light, quick, well-balanced, and affordable, and looked very pedestrian to top it all off. Other cars today can do most of that, but fail miserably in one of those areas.

As far as the WRX and oversteer, I won't pretend to know 1/5 of what Kojima knows, nor am I sure how the WRXs he's driven have been setup, but my '06 WRX is anything but violent or even "quick" in its transitions from under to oversteer. It does in fact understeer stock, but its open front diff and limited-slip rear diff combine, at stock power levels anyway, to make the car very easy to drive at the limit, with over and understeer both available. It reminds me of my old 91 SE-R in that way, though the engines--the 2.5l turbo in the WRX, SR20VE in the SE-R--could'nt have been more different.

I don't think the WRX chassis is nearly as refined as the Evo, but is extremely effective, and I'd even submit that a WRX setup with adjustable shocks and properly aligned might even be better in most circumstances than an STI setup, simply due to the travel and abiity to "behave" during many different road and track transitions. It isn't as sharp as an Evo, Elise, ITR, or even an old MR2, but if you can get accustomed to the numb steering, learning to find the information about grip you need with much less info than an Evo can give, it can be brutally effective. You sometimes have to trust it, unfortunately, instead of knowing. The anti-lift kit by Whiteline helps the power-on understeer quite a bit, and at-the-limit balance can obviously be adjusted through sway bars,alignment, tirepressure, and the like. It won't ever be Evo-like, but it does have a big-block boxer engine, side-and-head impact airbags, and an extremely robust build-quality for crash-worthiness (which is what I meant by "safer").

I got my '06 new for about $22,500, with Nav-auto dimming mirror, spoiler, and boost gauge (though they could've kept the boost gauge--it sucks). The 02-05 WRX is a great car, and the 06 added the bigger engine, 17" wheels, Impreza 22B 4-piston brakes in front/2-piston in rear, aluminum suspension arms, and some nicer interior bits. 

As far as torque goes, the '06s did get the 2.5l, which is very torquey, though as-stock is tuned oddly, peaking quickly and abruptly, then falling off in a weird way that must be tuned out. Here is a dyno sheet of an 06 stock, versus one simply reflashed with a catted exhaust. The tiny turbo is horrible past 5k, but the 2.5l makes the torque for sure. The worst part of the car is a fragile 3rd gear, not helped by all that torque.

Here is another, only adding an intake and up-pipe. 346 ft lbs with only a flash, exhaust, up-pipe and intake!

Cheers,

Terry Heick
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Eric Waterman 
  To: Wayne 
  Cc: se-r at se-r-list.org 
  Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 12:00 PM
  Subject: Re: SE-R Replacement
    Our Forester when it had the stock turbo, had no lack of torque and turbo lag was very small.  With the new turbo, it has a bit more lag, but not that bad that you have to keep the revs up for it to pass people.

  Eric Waterman

  On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 9:25 PM, Wayne <wc701lists at bellsouth.net> wrote:

    blitzmr2 at insightbb.com wrote:
    > Plain-ol WRX is extremely well-proportioned performance-wise. Perfect performance/daily IMHO.
    > Safer than an Evo to boot. : )

    I was given a WRX for an "over night test drive" in May 2006 when I was
    looking for a new car.  I ran the SHIT out of in in the 24 hours.  I was
    fun off the line, but torqueless in around town driving.  It was
    torqueless at highway speed, too.  I bought the RSX-S instead.  It's
    also a slug.  Now considering V6 Accord, Miata or BMW 1.

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