Book time vs. actual cost

[George Roffe]

Peter Serwe wrote:

>No offense, but it's a well known fact that book times are padded.

Are they?  Just because I can do a brake job on a Mitsubaru Ecliptic from
Texas in 1 hour, it doesn't mean it doesn't take 3 hours on one from
Maine.  Or how about bad parts?  What if it takes 6 hours to do the brake
job on the Mitsubaru Ecliptic from Maine, will that driver from Maine want
to pay for the job that took twice as long as it "should?"

>There is a strong belief in the auto repair sector that it's okay to rip
>people
>off constantly.  It's not the people's fault for being ignorant, it's the
>mechanics' fault for being a rip off artist.

True.  However, people who are ignorant decide to be ignorant.  It's not OK
to rip off an ignorant person, but who gets to decide if this person is
really being ripped off?

>Case in point, JGY down in VA does a turbo motor swap for a flat rate of
>$1000.  Take your vehicle to a most performance shops and suggest that
>it's not worth much more than that, see how they react - people do NOT
>like being called on their dishonesty.

Sounds like you are saying you actually *like* a flat rate.  But only if
it's a bargain for you.  See what I mean?

>As Ray said, and I'll paraphrase slightly, by FAR the vast majority of
>automotive repair shops are ignorant.

Ignorant customers buying from ignorant vendors?  Should I care about this?

>They want to change oil, and bleed coolant, and be able to bill $X an hour
>for it.

That I will agree with.  Or at least that they want the work to be as
simple as possbile.  I used to work in the aftermarket replacement parts
industry and always found it sadly funny that mechanics are now called
"installers."  How appropriate.  That's all they want to be now.  R&R, R&R,
R&R......  They don't want to do diagnosis and are generally bad at it.

>Dishonesty in that industry is not the exception, it's the rule.

That's a bit harsh, cynical, and I'm not sure it's true.

>The only way people can keep themselves from being screwed is education,
>but the vast majority of people neither have the time, nor the inclination
>to educate themselves
>about their cars.

That just tells me that they don't care if they are ripped off.  It doesn't
make it OK, but if they are not interested in educating themselves enough
to know if they are being ripped off, they have made a choice that it's OK
with them to be ripped off occasionally rather than invest time into making
sure they are not.  Again, don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming the customer
for being ripped off.  But, we spend our time on things of value to us (at
least most normal people), and if we don't spent time on educating
ourselves about something, it doesn't have enough value to us.  See what
I'm saying?

>The Dinan shop who's name I won't mention in northern New Jersey screwed
>me for $12k on my 750iL, not fixing things they claimed they fixed, and
>charging me for it.

I hate that.

>It's mechanics like that, that have made me swear off taking my car to
>_anyone_.

Same here.  I'd love to take my car to someone.  I don't trust most
shops.  In my case, it's less a matter of honesty than competence
however.  I used to have a shop near me here in Houston that I would trust
to do absolutely *anything* on my car.  They earned that
trust.  Unfortunately there were some internal issues within the company
and they folded.  That was about 3 years ago and I've yet to find another
shop I trust.

>Just because you can talk the poor schmuck into paying it, doesn't
>mean your entitled to rip him off.

Agreed 100%.

In summary, I agree with many things you said, and have bitched about book
rates myself in the past.  However, what many people don't realize is that
*protects* them as well.  What happens when a job that should take an hour
turns into a 5 hour job because of problems the mech has no control
over?  People won't want to pay the 5 hours.  It also protects against
fraud.  There are two sides to this issue.

Geo